While reading “You Were Never Born” there was a radio interview with John mentioned in one of the first dialogues. Upon looking into this show and if it was still available I found David Bingham’s (nondual teacher) experience with listening to this particular show when he was interviewed on Conscious TV. You can find the full radio show with John at the end of this post.
“David: My intention was to meet with Roger again and continue seeking, but it presented itself in a particular way. A close friend had mentioned John Wheeler and from his website was a link to a radio interview. There was a programme that went out on the West Coast of America called Let’s get Real. And the interviewer, Allin Taylor (who is actually Annette Nibley), was interviewing a number of people, trying to discover what reality was; talking to people where there had been shifts in consciousness.
Iain: And so, you heard the tape?
David: And so I heard the tape. It was about 40 or 50 minutes long; where John points directly to the true nature of the Self. There is a tradition of Advaita. The shift took place for John in about 2003 when he went to see Sailor Bob Adamson. John had been seeking for around thirty years, and he went to see Sailor Bob and his doubts were cleared. Sailor Bob had spent time with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj in the 1970s…
David: …and saw clearly what Nisargadatta was pointing to. So the way John Wheeler uses non-dual pointing is in a very specific way. It clarifies the distinction between what is permanent and what is temporary. And that’s why self-realisation is something that is available to everyone now, because it isn’t something that just happens to special people…
Iain: I want to know what happened to you.
David: OK [smiling].
Iain: You listened to this tape. You were sitting at home presumably?
Iain: In a chair?
David: I was actually…
Iain: And then take us through the process. I’m fascinated by people’s process when something really important happens.
David: OK. I had a computer in my bedroom, and I went up to have a look at some things on a Sunday afternoon. It now seems like a cosmic joke because Sunday 13th November 2005 was Remembrance Day! It’s interesting to recall the way it happened. Allin Taylor was interviewing John Wheeler and he started describing the nature of consciousness. As he started speaking, I felt really drowsy. I’d noticed in the past, when really clear knowledge is coming through, for some reason, the physiology shuts down. So I just lay down to rest. I rested for about an hour because I just thought, “I really need to hear this in a clear state…”
Iain: So you were lying down with the tape… you lay down for an hour beforehand and then…?
David: I put the recording on again, and started listening to it. John Wheeler went very clearly through a description of the nature of consciousness. He points to what is permanent, to what is real, and he also describes what is temporary, and the way consciousness disguises itself. After maybe fifteen minutes, there was total clarity and a seeing and knowing of what he was pointing to.
David: At the end of the recording, Allin Taylor explained how she had met John a couple of weeks before, to talk about the interview, and the shift had taken place for her before the interview! I later realised that they had structured the interview to enable this process of revelation. She was asking questions that allowed him to reveal what he needed to reveal.
Iain: OK. And is this still on John’s website, this tape, as far as you know?
David: I don’t think it is. I’ve only been in contact with John and Allin a couple of times; even though they played such a pivotal role, I haven’t really been in contact with them. Once this is seen, there isn’t really much to discuss! I’d read quite a lot of material on John’s website where he was responding to questions. To me there was something about the dynamics of hearing the person’s voice and hearing a description of the Self, even though it was only a recording. There was something about that, which for me was far more potent than the written word, because I’d read all these things before but they didn’t seem alive.
Iain: Maybe the vibration of his voice kind of touched something.
Transcript for the David Bringham interview can be found here: http://conscious.tv/text/09.htm
John Wheeler interviewed by Allin Taylor can be found below: